May 2017 - The Twelve Lives of Samuel Hawley, by Hannah Tinti

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twelvelives
hannahtinti

(Kim@Time2Read) #161

That's a great catch! Each bullet is marking the passage of time!
I'm really not sure when the story is set. I think I assumed it was current, but I think someone earlier remarked about the kids not using technology. That certainly makes a lot more sense if this took place in the 90s!


(Jane D) #162

OK just started next chapter. Loo is an infant and it is mentioned they have a Diaper Genie. So I think she is born in 90s at the earliest.


(Jennifer D.) #163

RIGHT?? i felt like this particular exchange was a plot convenience for where Lily and Hawley happened to be living. though the interaction with Talbot and Maureen, earlier, was also remote-ish, not nearly as isolated as this Alaskan exchange. the randomness of the stranger man being there to help hawley was also a bit too convenient for me, given the location.


(Jennifer D.) #164

this was mentioned earlier in the book -- that her death was in a lake in wisconsin.


(Jane D) #165

OK thanks....so much water...I missed/forgot about the location of Lily's drowning.:slight_smile:


(Jane D) #166

Good point about Talbot's location, too. Though I have been to Whidbey Island and your are correct...not easy to access. A beautiful location, though! :slight_smile:


(Jennifer D.) #167

SO. MUCH. WATER!

:blush:


(Penny / Literary Hoarders ) #168

@Jane_Dixon -- Awesome!! Time -- they are stealing time - huh!! These are each of the items they are "retrieving" at every job.
And then Jove shows up with a bag of watches and puts one on Loo.

Time and Water.
So interesting!!

Nice catch!

And does that have anything to do with this Hercules thing? I know nothing about that and haven't looked it up yet - so I guess that will be the next thing to do for me! :wink:

Honestly, what a great book to discuss through book club like this - I don't think I would have made any of these connections had I read through it on my own. Thanks y'all!!


(Erica Robyn) #169

Oh I LOVED this book so much! I had the opportunity to get an ARC copy. So sorry I'm late to the show with this one!


(Jennifer D.) #170

Oh, no worries at all, @Erica_Robyn!! Glad you're here now!! :blush:


(Jennifer Christy) #171

Loved this book and looking forward to "Americanah" which has been on my tbr forever. Thanks for the nudge!


(Jennifer D.) #172

So glad to hear you loved "12 Lives..." -- it will be great to have you join us for "Americanah"! :blush:


(Jennifer D.) #173

How is everyone's reading going this week? If you could take a moment to let me know where you are at in the book, that would be great!! Thank you!! (Trying to keep note of how people are doing, if the schedule is working, or if most people have finished the book allowing us to open the discussion completely, a bit early.)

We are focusing on this part of the book this week:

May 21st - 27th: Chapters "Seven, Eight, Nine" through end of "The Cooler"
(HC pgs 242-311; PB pgs 308-396)

And I will have a summary and discussion questions posted on Sunday.

I hope the book is still going really well for you all!!

:blush:


(Jane D) #174

I am finished with this week's reading and have started in on the last section. I could easily finish it up to discuss the whole book sooner than scheduled if the group wants to do so.


(Penny / Literary Hoarders ) #175

I'm finished it as well!


(Kim@Time2Read) #176

I just started in on this week's reading today. House-remodeling is cutting down on my reading time. But I hope to finish at least this section tonight or in the morning, and once I do, I'll probably read straight through!


(Jennifer D.) #177

Happy Sunday, everyone!! It's time for this week's summary and discussion questions -- I hope the reading has been going well for you. The action is certainly building the further along we read!! :astonished:

Here's what's on the schedule:

May 21st - 27th: Chapters "Seven, Eight, Nine" through end of "The Cooler"
(HC pgs 242-311; PB pgs 308-396)

Chapter 15 -- "Bullets Seven, Eight, Nine"

  • back to time of Loo's birth
    they moved from Alaska to Wisconsin, and have a cabin near a national forest
  • Hawley not adjusting well to the baby; Lily exhausted
  • Hawley makes excuses to leave the house
  • Lily plans Loo's baptism, even though not religious -- 'just in case' there is a heaven and a hell
  • in church, red and orange light shining on Hawley and Loo, from stained glass windows
  • at end of service, Lily very frustrated; hands Loo to Hawley and tells him to figure it out. She leaves
  • back at the cabin, Loo won't settle. Hawley stressing out. Digs out flask he has hidden. Only thing that settled his mind was drink, and bottles were stashed all around the house. He hoped Lily wouldn't find them.
  • Hawley dips his finger in the whiskey and lets Loo suck on his finger
  • Lily returns later that night -- she had gone to a meeting. She can't talk about their real life at meetings, but did tell them she thought Hawley had left them when he didn't call in Alaska.
    She sees empty bottle in the trash and notes her way of coping versus Hawley's
  • _"You like being the bad guy. But our story - it isn't only about you."
  • "You think you're alone. You think you're the worst. But you not."_
  • Next morning, the go to the beach for a nice day
  • Talbot arrives -- gives Hawley a choice to save Lily or Loo, not both.
  • Hawley choose Lily, with the hope she understands, runs to cabin and gets gun(s) - he had gone to the beach without a weapon
  • Lily leaves. Hawley waits, but eventually stabs Talbot in the leg with a fork. Hawley snatches Loo runs to the dock and shoves her off in a canoe
  • Talbot hits Hawley in the butt twice with bullets. Hawley is in the water hiding
  • Talbot floats past, giant hole in his chest from a gun blast
  • Lily had returned and shot Talbot, but she's also been hit - Talbot's gun went off when Lily fired
  • Talbot let Lily walk right up to him and put gun to his chest
  • Lily gets about halfway across the lake to get Loo, swimming, and begins to falter
  • Hawley thrashes about screaming for Lily to come back. Lily disappears under the water
  • Hawley thinks he has no reason now to live, except for Loo

Chapter 16: "Pandora"

  • Loo goes to Mabel's to return car
  • took Loo one month to finish petition. She then mailed it to all levels of government
  • Mabel tells Loo : "He's your father but he's not a good person... I was married to a man like that."
  • Loo seems to be having moments of recognition in Mabel's house, and Mabel tells Loo that she had lived there until she was 4yo, and that Hawley then returned and took Loo back one night
  • Mabel tells Loo she looks so much like Lily
  • Loo goes home and searches through their house.
  • Jove has been with them for more than 3 weeks - she finds his stuff.
  • Loo finds all the guns, except on, which Hawley must have with him
  • Loo finds 4 jars in the toilet tank, containing more than $450,000 - hadn't been there 2 or 3 months ago
  • Loo goes down to the marina. Hawley finally tells her the story of Lily's death
  • Jove is launching his boat. Loo christens it, but imagines hitting Hawley in the head with the bottle, instead of the boat

Chapter 17: "Bullet Number Ten"

  • Hawley is in Wyoming -- having left Loo with Mabel
  • He started smoking after Lily's funeral, rolled a cigarette with Lily's tobacco
  • he hired a 'cleaner' after the mess in Wisconsin - Talbot's body, Lily's autopsy, and the police report all handled, but 'cleaner' couldn't clean Hawley
  • Hawley went on a two week bender, wakes up on a boat with Jove. Jove helps him with his grief
  • Hawley had only meant to leave Loo for a week. Thinks she's better off without him, but feels he owes her a life not having to look over her shoulder
  • Hawley has a list of people to 'handle'
  • Arrives at Nunn's property where he, Mike and Ike are having shooting practice at prairie dogs
  • there is a woman there too - Hawley tells her to leave. She warns Hawley that Nunn has a powerful rifle in the trailer
  • Hawley shoots Nunn in the head; fights with Mike, gets away and runs out onto property where the ground collapses and Hawley is buried - he digs further to get better coverage to hide from Mike and Ike
  • Hawley gets shot in the calf
  • eventually he sneaks back to trailer, and sets it on fire
  • Shoots Ike in the head
  • Shoots Mike multiple times
  • Trailer burns

Chapter 18: "The Cooler"

  • someone fired a single shot into the front door of Mary Titus's house - this is now the talk of the town
  • parts of the Banks are being shut down for further studies
  • Loo is worried about Marshall
  • Gunderson has started dating Mary Titus
  • it's been 10 days since Jove launched his boat
  • Loo is waiting for the petition to pass, "to prove she was not like her father. That she was a person who could save things."
  • Agnes tells Loo that half the town thinks Hawley shot up Mary's house
  • Loo goes to see Marshall. Mary is home and police are present
  • Marshall is going out to stepfather's boat on the Banks, until the NOAA agrees to a sanctuary
  • Marshall didn't think Loo would write out 5000 names and turn in the petition. Mary is happy but Marshall feels like an asshole because he knows it's not real and will be discovered
  • Marshall returns the gun to Loo and tells her he shot up his own house
  • Marshall feels it is all his fault - he lost petition, he had to fix it and he will keep fixing it until it's done.

Discussion Questions

  1. Is it surprising that Hawley doesn't take well to parenting?
  2. Do Lily's comments about Hawley seem accurate? Do Lily and Hawley seem capable enough for parenting together, and strengthening their marriage? Are there too many secrets to overcome?
  3. Why do you think Talbot gave Hawley a choice between saving Lily or Loo? Did Hawley make the right decision when faced with this impossible choice?
  4. Why does Loo return the car to her grandmother? How do Loo's thoughts about the car differ from Hawley's?
  5. Do you think it was helpful to Loo to hear the story of Lily's death, finally, directly from Hawley?
  6. Where do you think the $450,000 has come from?
  7. Do you see a side of Jove that hasn't been shown before, in this part of the story?
  8. Hawley has his list, while he's in Wyoming. Is there a different feel to Hawley's conduct now?
  9. Did Hawley make the right choice in leaving Loo with Mabel?
  10. Why did Marshall shoot his own house?
  11. Can you see a way out of this life for Loo? Is she strong enough to forge a different path? Is Loo clear-headed, or confused by all the events and information she's experienced and learned?
  12. Does Marshall sound like/remind you of anyone else in trying to be accountable for the lost petition?

I can't wait to hear your thoughts and ideas about these chapters, and the story so far!!

:blush:


(Kim@Time2Read) #178

Is it surprising that Hawley doesn't take well to parenting?

I don't think it is all that surprising. Hawley isn't a guy with a track record of good decisions, and the baby was kind of out of the blue. Yes, he should have known a baby was a possibility, but I don't think Hawley is capable of forseeing the consequence of his actions, at least not at this point. It also doesn't seem that he has experience being around infants, so his behavior is not really surprising.

_ Do Lily's comments about Hawley seem accurate? Do Lily and Hawley seem capable enough for parenting together, and strengthening their marriage? Are there too many secrets to overcome?_

I think Lily's comments were true. Whether or not Hawley actually liked being the bad guy, he certainly found it easier to be the bad guy, and I think he liked the 'power' of the bad guy. At this point, I don't think either of them have the necessary parenting skills, but that doesn't mean they couldn't. I do wonder though, if Lily had survived, would the marriage have survived, or would Lily have eventually become like her mother, realizing the guy she married was not a good guy, and left him.

_ Why do you think Talbot gave Hawley a choice between saving Lily or Loo? Did Hawley make the right decision when faced with this impossible choice?_

I think Hawley made the only choice that he could. Choosing Lily at least gave them the chance to all survive. (And maybe they would have if Lily had not tried to swim across the lake, but instead have found another way to rescue Loo.) If Hawley had chosen Loo, there would not be a chance that Loo could rescue Lily.

Why does Loo return the car to her grandmother? How do Loo's thoughts about the car differ from Hawley's?

I think Loo wanted to get answers from her grandmother that she thought she couldn't get from Hawley. She needed to know why her grandmother blamed Hawley for Lily's death. But I think to Loo, it was just a car that happened to be owned by her mother, without a lot of sentimental attachment. To Hawley, the car was an extension of Lily.

_ Do you think it was helpful to Loo to hear the story of Lily's death, finally, directly from Hawley?_

Absolutely! I think until Hawley told her the story, she was not going to get over suspecting him of murdering her mother. It helped her understand that while her father held himself responsible for her death, he did not actually kill her.

Where do you think the $450,000 has come from? Do you see a side of Jove that hasn't been shown before, in this part of the story?

I don't really know where the money came from. Some crime, perhaps one Jove was involved in. Jove seems a little more likable. He's always cared about Hawley, but he seemed to also care about Loo.

_ Hawley has his list, while he's in Wyoming. Is there a different feel to Hawley's conduct now?_

I think so. At this point he is definitely not just blundering into situations that seem beyond his control, but has actively decided to commit murder. But I guess I could take the point of view that at this point, things are beyond his control — that there are people he knows will come to hurt his daughter and he needs to do whatever it takes to to protect her. But to me, this is a real turning point in how I see Hawley.

_ Did Hawley make the right choice in leaving Loo with Mabel?_

I think he made the only choice he could. He couldn't really drag a baby around while he works his way through his list knocking people off. The only other possibility I can see at that point is for him to take Loo and keep running, hoping know one catches up with him.

Why did Marshall shoot his own house?

When I read this part, it made perfect sense to me, but it doesn't make at much sense now. I think he shot the house, knowing it would draw publicity, and it worked temporarily, but I don't think he thought it through. Eventually the police will ID the bullet and find out it was him. In that respect, he is not much different than Loo and the petition signatures. But his 'he had to fix it and he will keep fixing it until it's done' statement also made me think of Hawley — the way he got himself and his little family into danger all those years ago and had to keep 'fixing it' until it is done.

Can you see a way out of this life for Loo? Is she strong enough to forge a different path? Is Loo clear-headed, or confused by all the events and information she's experienced and learned?

Well, I think she is strong enough if she chooses to go that route, but she is also confused. She loves her dad but is obviously learning about the side of him she never knew. And she is confused by her feelings for Marshall. She obviously cares for him, but she doesn't approve of his actions. Marshall is a good guy, but their relationship may be similar to that of Hawley and Lily. Lily loved Hawley very much, but she didn't like the way he was living his life.

And I again have to wonder what would have happened had she lived. Would Hawley have found a way to change his life and be the husband and father Lily and Loo deserved? Or would Lily have eventually left him.

Does Marshall sound like/remind you of anyone else in trying to be accountable for the lost petition.

Hawley (I mentioned it above)


(Jennifer D.) #179

thank you so much for all these great responses, @Kim!!
:blush:


(Jennifer D.) #180

Please feel free to talk openly about the entire novel, without worry of spoilers.

I feel like some people have been waiting patiently in the background, so I hope you will chime in with your thoughts about this novel!!

I will be back tomorrow with a final summary and questions, but I wanted to make sure you all had the chance to share your comments about the book, so thought I would throw out an early nudge... invitation! Please don't be shy, we welcome everyone to offer their opinions about the book.

All of the participation has been terrific this month and I deeply appreciate everyone who has read the novel because of our book club. As well, so many thanks to those who have actively participated in our discussion, shared their thoughts, and replied to the questions throughout the month! You have helped add so much to this read for me, and I hope that was also the case in your own experience with the novel and with our first book club discussion!!

:blush: